tv CNN Newsroom With Carol Costello CNN August 1, 2014 6:00am-7:01am PDT
killed when massive israeli air strike pulverize this residential area and a market. hamas says the attack was unprovoked and israel shatters the truce just 90 minutes into a 72-hour agreement that washington helped broker. israel says it was hamas that broke the cease-fire just minutes earlier, a suicide bomber emerged from a militant tunnel and detonated among israeli troops, and most ominous of all, israel says one of its soldiers was kidnapped during the attack. as you can see from these huge plumes of smoke erupting this morning over gaza, israel is retaliating with ferocious air strikes. >> there's a price to pay for abducting an israeli soldier as well, and they're going to pay a very heavy price. >> as bad as it's been -- >> you ain't seen nothing yet. >> correspondents and guests are covering all the angles.
let's beginning our coverage in jerusalem with wolf blitzer. tell us more, wolf. >> carol, the spokesman for the israeli defense forces, lieutenant colonel peter lerner has come to cnn, he's with us right now. i want to get specific, lieutenant colonel. you say the cease-fire first of all is over, right? >> well, absolutely. this organization that s you know, just taken advantage of the humanitarian cease-fire that israel had agreed to carry out and indeed implemented for that full 90 minutes, but they came out of the ground, suicide bomber blew himself up, killing two soldiers, and within the gun fight there, they went back down in the hole and abducted one of our boys. >> you identified that young israeli soldier, lieutenant, right? >> second lieutenant hadar goldin. >> from a suburb of tel aviv. was the incident that occurred on the israeli side of the tunnel or the gaza side of the tunnel? >> it all took place within the gaza strip in the areas where we were operating in recent days,
indeed they were on defensive positions dealing with decommissioning a tunnel. this is something we said we would be doing throughout the cease-fire, because these tunnels as has been proven in this incident, are a serious threat. this is what they've said they would do time and time again. this is a mo dous operandi of these people and what we're up against. >> they said the agreement spelled out by the u.s. and the u.n., the secretary of state said israel had to remain within its lines but could do g on defensive a and continue the decommissioning or destruction of those tunnels. was that within israel's lines that incident that occurred where these two israeli soldiers were killed and one was captured? >> absolutely. we were operating in order to decommission the tunnels that have one goal, terrorism, death, destrubs, as we've talked about several times, abduction is one of the things they are doing. we are in a situation now where they have opened this reality where israel again is in a situation where we have no
choice, we have to operate >> this incident occurred, the cease-fire went into effect at 8:00 a.m. local time this morning. what time did this incident occur, the killing of the two israeli soldiers and the taking of the one israeli soldier prisoner? >> 9:30 this morning. >> that's an hour and a half after the cease-fire went in effect. what did you do, the idf, immediately following this incident? >> as i explained, there was a gun fight that happened in the midst of it, so we were responding immediately to this incident and we were in pursuit of the people who carried out this attack. several activities on the ground, several activities intelligence enhancement operational activities on the ground in order to try and retrieve this boy, hadar goldin. >> any clue on where they are holding him? unfortunately not. >> those who abducted him you have no idea where they went?
>> they went back down into their holes and this is a reality. these tunnels are a real threat. >> i assume the idf is undertaking a massive search operation. >> that's right. >> the deaths we saw in the marketplace in rafa, it looks like the palestinians say 40 or 50 people were killed. >> i can't confirm that. >> was there an incident there at a marketplace that israel was responding as you say to activity that's going on there, a lot of pal spin was were killed? >> there were extensive mortar fires that happened there as well and of course the situation where they have gone and abducted another soldier and this is the specific modus operandi they carried out. they did it with three teenagers seven, eight weeks ago now, they go z it with gilad shalit. this is a reality in this conflict where we're in the midst of combat with them where we were respecting a humanitarian cease-fire, brokered by the international
community with the u.s. and the united nations, and this is what this terrorist organization has done. >> is it fair to call as i have a game changer, what happened today? >> well, we'll have to see because of course the government will convene and discuss what are the options on the table. the military is in pursuit of the people that are responsible. we are striking this terrorist organization, hamas are responsible for the well-being of the officer. we are striking this organization, that is what we are intending to do. >> yesterday the idf announced 16,000 more reservists were being activated for active duty, that brings 86,000 reservists who have now been called up for active duty. are more of these activations planned as a result of what happened today in the works right now? >> the additional reservists were in order to facilitate a rotation and give flexibility and be prepared for developments. this is a substantial development. we'll have to see how we mobilize and utilize those
forces. >> you say thhamas infiltratorsn the tunnel, one of them wearing a suicide vest killed two israeli soldiers. in that process when he blew himself up the israeli soldiers were killed, is that what happened? >> to the best of my knowledge, that is what happened this morning at 9:30. >> was that unique in this particular case? because we heard from some experts who say a lot of the militant fighters go into battle wearing the suicide vests. >> we haven't seen it since the ground force activities has begun. it's new in that respect but suicide bombing is something hamas has done in the past, and if they're going into battle with them, it wouldn't be a surprise. >> is it the idf's assessment that the military wing of hamas is different as far as the political wing of hamas? >> this is one organization. they have one agenda, they're operating in order to carry out that agenda. we won't let them. >> but are they on the same page? there's some suggestions that the military wing doesn't necessarily go along with the political wing. >> it is one organization.
since day one every time we say cease-fire israel implemented. what have they done, escalated, aggravated and now abduction. >> how many tunnels have you now destroyed? >> over two-thirds of those tunne tunnels, around 20 something to that effect. >> you destroyed 0 and found 31? how many more are there? >> of what we know, there are obviously access points that we don't necessarily know about. this just goes to show the severity of this issue, goes to show how they have used it for strategic and poured millions and millions of dollars into the ground. >> how many rockets or missiles from hamas territory in gaza have come into israel today? >> i'm not sure the figures. it's been a few. >> earlier today there's eight or nine. >> we've had more since then. >> eye rehns are still going off. you don't see any letup. >> no. >> there's impressive capability, how do they do that in the face of one of the best militaries in the world, the
israeli military, they still have the opportunity to launch rockets and missiles into israel. >> they've accumulated huge amounts of rockets. the idf is not everywhere in gaza at the moment and indeed they are wherever we are not present they can launch rockets from. this is what we've said all over this mission and indeed, they are launching indiscriminate rockets at the state of israel, putting israelis at risk, holding 5 million israelis hostage, a reality which is unbearable. >> explain to our viewers why the capture of one israeli soldier, a young lieutenant, is so powerful a motivator in israel right now, because 50 or 60 israeli soldiers already have been killed. tell us why this is so significant. >> 63. >> 63 soldiers have been killed. tell us why this is so significant as far as the idf, the israeli people are concerned? >> it goes back to the fact that israel was implementing a cease-fire. this was brokered by the
international community. we were doing and we were standing up to the expectations of the israeli defense forces of serious military. we take our business serious when we're told to hold our fire that's what we do and go into defensive positions. this is why it's serious. when you hold your positions you expect the other side does the same, but obviously with this type of terrorist organization there can be no trust. you cannot expect them to hold fire because they have no interest in doing so. they only have an interest in aggravating the situation further. for us with he cherish life, every single life. that is why when one officer or soldier is taken away it means a lot to us. >> will you do another prisoner exchange in exchange for this lieutenant? >> i don't know about that. >> because you have done that over the years. >> it's happened in the past. we're way too early to even discuss that. we need to bring him home. >> lieutenant colonel peter lerner, thanks very much for joining us. >> thank you. >> there you have it, carol, the latest from the idf, from the
israel defense forces. this clearly is a situation that is about to escalate on the ground militarily. who knows what's going to happen next but it's going to get worse than it already has been. >> all right, wolf, we'll get back to you. thanks so much. wolf blitzer reporting live from jerusalem this morning. still to come in "the newsroom," the conflict between gaza and israel is becoming increasingly deadly for u.n. workers. eight have been killed so far. we'll talk to the head of the u.n. relief agency about the threat they're facing. you owned your car for four years. you named it brad. you loved brad. and then you totaled him. you two had been through everything together. two boyfriends. three jobs. you're like "nothing can replace brad!" then liberty mutual calls. and you break into your happy dance. if you sign up for better car replacement, we'll pay for a car that's a model year newer with 15,000 fewer miles than your old one. see car insurance in a whole new light.
the white house not mincing words on the possible abduction of an israeli soldier allegedly by hamas, this is what josh earnest said a short time ago. >> apparently hamas individuals used the cover of a humanitarian cease-fire to attack israeli soldiers and even to take one hostage. that would be a rather barbaric violation of the cease-fire agreement. we would encourage the international community to respond to this and condemn it in the strongest possible terms >> let's talk about that. cnn chief national correspondent
jim sciutto is here. we heard josh lerner say everyone should condemn this in the most strong way but what will that accomplish? >> that's a good question, but i think before this abduction and the lead-up to the cease-fire and the completion of the cease-fire, the 90-minute cease-fire as it turned out, there was building pressure from the white house, from the state department, from u.s. officials on israel because of the rising civilian death toll in gaza. clearly immense pressure applied to get israel to agree to the cease-fire, now the abduction that pressure disappears, in effect, and you have, hearing from josh earnest and others, the national security adviser calling this an outrageous violation of the cease-fire, you have them backing israel up now and i think that that will help unleash, it probably would have happened any way but that will help give israel the space it believes it deserves to conduct i think we should brace ourselves for a very aggressive
ground operation in gaza right now. >> let's talk about who violated the cease-fire, the overwhelming consensus is hamas violated the cease-fire but there is something the secretary of state said when he laid out the terms of this cease-fire that's making things a bit more complicated. the destruction of this tunnel according to the israeli lieutenant colonel lerner said it was within the gaza strip. john kerry intimated that, under the terms of the cease-fire that israel could continue to destroy tunnels on its side of the border. what do you make of that? >> you know, it's interesting. it's a great question, carol, something i was looking into last night and again this morning. there were two words used by state department oweofficials, conducting behind israeli borders and other officials including secretary kerry said last night behind israeli lines, which would presume battle lines that existed inside gaza. the anti-tunnel operations that took place this morning as a
cease-fire were broken was inside gaza territory, and that is a weakness in this cease-fire plan. i said this last night it's a cease-fire but not all fire will cease because there were still military operations going on inside gaza and it appears that hamas responded to that or perhaps they had a plan going all along anyway for this attack but they did it, and we've heard, i've spoken to our own reporters in gaza, they say hamas is saying they observed israeli forces making advances inside gaza overnight and that's their excuse in effect for conducting this operation. at this point in light of the white house reaction, in light of this tactic of capturing an israeli soldier which is really an escalation, that's almost water under the bridge in diplomatic terms that israel is going to respond. israel has the national compact in effect with israeli families that we ask for your chirp to
serve in our military. we'll protect them particularly if they're captured. we saw that with gilad shalit. you can expect them to retaliate with this with a massive ground operation in part just to search for the soldier and also to push back against hamas gains. wolf said a few minutes ago is this a game changer? i think we can safely say that it is and we should brace ourselves for a very intense escalation in this conflict. >> another factor in a possible escalation to this war is a suicide vest was used, right? >> yes. >> that's how these hamas fighters in this tunnel came out, one of them was wearing a suicide vest, two israeli soldiers died and they captured a third, and although we know the terrorists used suicide vests before in this particular battle, they have not until now. >> true. it gives me a thought and i
don't know this for sure but in light of the use of a suicide vest and the fact that they were able to take a soldier that presumes some preparation, it looks to me like a planned operation, something if you have that sort of success particularly against israel which is very aware of this threat of being kidnapped, they take defensive measures to prevent that, to have this success it presumes some planning on hamas' side. i don't know that for sure but the use of a suicide vest, their success surprising it appears, the israeli soldier, as they were conducting these anti-tunnel operations. it presumes some planning on the part of hamas. >> jim sciutto reporting live for us, thanks so much. >> thank you. >> of course we'll continue to monitor the situation in the mideast this morning. this is a live look at gaza. coming up, we're going to talk about how the crumbling of the cease-fire today may create even more tension between israel and the united nations. we'll talk about that next.
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chris gunis is the spokesman for the u.n. relief works agency. welcome sir. >> thank you very much indeed. >> chris, this capture of an israeli soldier, does this mean in your mind that the fighting will indeed intensify? >> well, look, we are a humanitarian organization working on the ground in shelters, which are now completely overwhelmed and we're not an organization that monito monitors cease-fires or can confirm independently of the media or anyone else that this soldier has been captured. from our humanitarian point of view a continuation of the fighting and breakdown of the cease-fire would be absolutely catastrophic, because we are facing a tidal wave of human displacement already in our shelters. there are a quarter of a million people and we have reached the point where we are going to break. they are overflowing. eight of our staff have been
killed and if the fighting continues, we are going to see potentially tens of thousands, hundreds of thousands of people simply stranded in the streets of gaza, no food, no water, and most importantly, no security. that's a very alarming prospect. >> chris, as you said, eight of your staff members have been killed in gaza. it's been reported that 100 u.n. facilities have come under fire. witnessing this conflict seems to have taken an emotional toll on everyone involved, including yourself. i want to show our viewers an interview you did on al jazeera tv. >> the rights of palestinians, even their children, are wholesale denied and it's appalling. my pleasure.
>> chris, i think many people understand the horrors of war, but some critics say that you've become too close to the situation to objectively do your job. are you? >> can i first of all say that that was meant to be a private moment of personal anguish, which i feel very intensely and i oftentimes finish the interview put my head in my hands and bawl like a baby, but the very fact that i am both a u.n. spokesperson and not a stone is not something which in any way compromises my neutrality. i think you ask an entirely proper question, though it's embarrassing to have that clip thrown back at me so many times, which happens and i entirely understand, but i don't think that my neutrality, i think that is evidence of something which i find throughout the u.n., and certainly throughout unra, there
is a passionate humanitarianism and a compassion for the victims of the conflict that we're working with, and by the way, that extends to both sides. i mean, i live in jerusalem and in tel aviv, and both these cities have faced barrages of rockets, so i, along with 6 million israeli civilians, have also found myself terrorized by these rockets which we in the u.n. condemn in the strongest possible terms, but the very fact that we as humanitarians have emotions does not mean i think that we are too close to this conflict. it means that we see intolerable suffering, and you know, one other reflection on that, if it's a result of people seeing that clip, the policymakers in washington and elsewhere and the publics in other parts of the world, including israel are left with the firm impression that our sense of indignation and outrage about u.n. designated shelters being hit is entirely
genui genuine, that i think that is a thoroughly good thing and frankly, there are times when the burden of human suffering is so immense that tears are simply more eloquent than words. >> i understand what you're saying, but you also understand israel says the united nations seems to be aligning itself with hamas, legitimizing it, encouraging attacks like this suicide bomber in the tunnel today by intimating israel is guilty of war crimes. is the u.n. doing that? >> i'm not sure which quote and who it is that's used the word war crimes. i certainly have not in this current context, nor has anybody within unrah but this idea you're calling for accountability and for the facts to be known, when a u.n. school was hit in the way that it was by israeli artillery, the idea that, because you do that you're
somehow aligning yourself with hamas i find illogical and somewhat perplexing and also rather discouraging. the fact that people see a call for justice and accountability as the same as aligning yourself with terrorism. i simply think it's wrong and i also think that often it comes from people who are quite politically motivated against the u.n. and i think we need to separate the issue of the quest for justice which i think is essential if this region is to find stability. we need to separate all of that away from the wider politics which are indeed extremely complicated. >> chris gunness, thank you for talking with me this morning. i appreciate it. >> my pleasure. my pleasure. >> all right, time to talk about some news happening here in the united states. we have new unemployment numbers to show you, 209,000 jobs were added in july, but the jobless rate ticked up a tenth of a point to 6.2%. for more on what the numbers
mean we bring in our chief business correspondent christine romans. >> this is still a healing in the labor market, not too strong to indicate the fed could pull all its support out of the economy and start raising interest rates too soon and not too weak to cause any concerns about the economy overall. can i give you some perspective here, carol? every month you get all these numbers. i want to show you how this kind of broadens out. you have 229,000 jobs on average each month this year, 229,000 on average, that's the strongest start to the year we've had since 2006 at least and that compares with the other years. think of 2010 only 88,000 a month, so you're seeing this slow healing overall in the labor market. when you look at this month pretty interesting, it's not as strong as last month's but still showing that trend of 200,000 jobs and the unemployment rate continues to hang around here, 6.2%. you know, it went up that little tiny bit, carol, for all the right reasons. more than 300,000 people were feeling more confident about the labor market and they're looking
for work again. we've been expecting that could happen as the headlines continue about slow healing and a broadening out of the kinds of jobs that are available, you're going to have more people coming into the labor market. we have on cnn money a great story about how middle class jobs, carol, are finally coming back. let me say it again, middle class jobs are finally coming back. business and information services jobs, manufacturing jobs, over the past few months, we've seen more than just those low paid retail jobs, low paid leisure and hospitality jobs, seeing a little bit of a broadening out. still not where we need to be, below potential, carol but you can see more healing in the jobs numbers. carol? >> we need that little ray of sunshine. thank you so much, christine romans. >> you're welcome. still to come in "the newsroom," israel escalates attacks on gaza and the civilian suffering especially among children may only get worse. we'll have the latest on this deepening crisis next. when a pro at any 2014 pga tour event sinks a hole-in-one,
all right these are pictures out of gaza city this morning. you see the dust rising up into the air. we believe it might be pause of israeli tanks going through the area. you see some activity there at the bottom of your screen, but certainly the fighting has intensified between israel -- those were trees -- the fighting has intensified between hamas and israel. also in the middle east that cease-fire is of course over and the israel/hamas conflict appears to be escalating as i said to a whole new level. this is the scene over gaza, as israeli air strikes erupt into massive clouds of dust and smoke. the pulverizing attacks are in
retaliation for the capture of an israeli soldier. israel says hamas shattered the truce in a tunnel attack that captured that soldier and killed two of his cam rods. cnn's wolf blitzer is in jerusalem and has the latest for you.. hi, wolf. >> carol, thanks very much. israeli officials now tell me 16 so far today since the cease-fire the ill-fated cease-fire, 16 hamas rockets and missiles have been launched from gaza into israel, sirens have gone off, there's no indication of any extensive damage, most of those rockets and missiles landed in what the israelis call open area fields or the m mediterranean for that the maer. it looks like there hasn't been any serious problems but they are resuming and israeli military operations have resumed basically even if a more intensive level than they were before the cease-fire, just a little while ago here in the "cnn newsroom" i had a chance to speak with the chief spokesman for the idf, israel defense
forces, lieutenant general peter lerner. >> tell us what's going on. you say the cease-fire is over. >> absolutely. this organization that has just taken advantage of the humanitarian cease-fire that israel has agreed to carry out and indeed implemented for that full 90 minutes, but they came out of the ground, suicide bomber blew himself up, killing two soldiers, and within the gunfight there, they went back down in the hole and abducted one of our boys. >> you've identified that young israeli soldier a lieutenant, right? >> second lieutenant hadr goldin. >> from a suburb of tel aviv. was the incident that occurred on the israeli side of the tunnel or the gaza side of the tunnel? >> it all took place within the gaza strip in the areas where we were operating in recent days. indeed, they were on defensive positions dealing with decommissioning a tunnel. this is something we said we would be doing throughout the cease-fire because these tunnels as has been proven in this incident, are a serious threat. this is what they've said they
would do time and time again. this say modus operandi of these people and this is what we're up against. >> because they said the agreement that was spelled out by the u.s. and the u.n., the secretary of state said israel had to remain within its lines but it could go on defensively and continue the decommissioning or the destruction of those tunnels. was that within israel's lines, that incident that occurred where these two israeli soldiers were killed and one israeli soldier was captured? >> absolutely. we were operating in order to decommission these tunnels that have one goal, terrorism, death, destruction, as we've talked about several times, abduction is one of those things that they are doing. now, we are in a situation now where they have opened this reality where israel again is in a situation where we have no choice, we have to operate. >> this incident occurred, the cease-fire went into effect at 8:00 a.m. local time this morning. what time did this incident occur, the killing of the two israeli soldiers and the taking of the one israeli soldier prisoner? >> 9:30 this morning. >> there's an hour and a half
after the cease-fire went in effect. what did you do, the idf, immediately following this incident? >> as i explained there was a gunfight that happened in the midst of it, so we were responding immediately to this incident, and we were in pursuit of the people who carried out this attack. several activities on the ground, several activities intelligence enhancement operational activities on the ground, in order to try and retrieve this boy, hadar goldin. >> the lieutenant israeli soldier. >> yes. >> do you have any clue at all where they may be holding him? >> unfortunately not. >> those who abducted him you have no idea where they went? >> well they have yet to come forward. they went back down into their holes and this is a reality. these tunnels are a real threat. >> i assume the idf is undertaking a massive search operation right now. >> that's right. >> and the deaths that we just saw on this marketplace in
rafah, it looks like the palestinians say 40 or 50 people were killed. >> i can't confoirm that. >> was there a marketplace that israel was responding, as you say to activity going on there, a lot of palestinians were killed? >> there were extensive mortar fires in qerim shah lom as well and rocketfire throughout the day and the situation where they've abducted another soldier. this is a specific modus operandi they carried out. they did it with three teenagers seven, eight weeks ago now. they did it with gilad slit. we're in the midst of combat with them, where we were respecting a humanitarian cease-fire, brokered by the international community with the u.s. and the united nations, and this is what this terrorist organization has done. >> and we're told, carol, that as the cease-fire was clearly unraveling, it's not totally destroyed, the secretary of state john kerry spoke with
israeli prime minister benjamin netanyahu. they discussed what happens next. it looks like those negotiations that were supposed to begin today, the follow on negotiations, palestinian delegation going to cairo and israeli delegation going to cairo to meet with egyptian officials and others to work out some of the other long-term problems involving the palestinians in gaza ease their condition, if it you will. looks like these negotiations are going no, where the military operations clearly escalating as we speak. >> wolf blitzer, thanks so much. we appreciate it. the capture of that israeli soldier as you heard wolf say may mean more intense fighting and more deaths and it would also likely ratchet up the tension between israel and the united nations even more. as gaza burns it seems a different u.n. agency all but accuses israel from everything to war crimes to lying. with me, alan dershowitz and marc lamont hill.
welcome to you both. >> good morning. >> good morning. alan, the united nations blames israel for the attack on a u.n. school earlier this week, the secretary-general said it was reprehensible. listen. >> this morning yet another united nations school sheltering thousands of palestinian families suffered a reprehensible attack. all available evidence points to israeli artillery as the cause. nothing is more shameful than attacking sleeping children. >> israel is enraged by those comments. hundreds of children, though, are dead. they were killed inside that school. does israel have the right to be angry? because it believes the u.n. is clearly on hamas' side. >> well, two points have to be made. number one, no country in the world debates these issues more
than israel does. its philosophers, academics, its military leaders and politicians. how do you react when they fire from civilian areas at your soldiers and at your civilians. how do you evaluate the life of an israeli civilian, an israeli civilian or child against the life of an palestinian. look what it does to its reputation when it happens, it's clearly always the fault of hamas, because they fire from behind human shields. that's their policy. second point that has to be made is that we now know why hamas agreed to the cease-fire. everybody was wondering why suddenly did they agree? because all the while they were planning this kidnapping, this assault, this breaking of the cease-fire. they were planning to use the cease-fire as an excuse to do what they've wanted to do right from the beginning, kidnap an israeli soldier, and hold him for ransom and extortion, and this may mark the end of any further cease-fires based on any
kind of trust. >> marc, do you agree with that? >> i agree with about 10% of what alan said. i do worry that the breaking of a cease-fire or even the language of breaking of a cease-fire can make it much more difficult long-term to have other cease-fires and also makes any possible negotiations with egypt which were being planned this week null and void. disagree with much of what he said. alan may have circumvented the question, how do you respond to children in a school dying at the hands of israeli bombs and the question is that it is morally reprehensible and the u.n. has any every to speak out against it. i hope they would. if hamas has broken the cease-fire and killed that poor 23-year-old israeli soldier i hope they'd also get international condemnation, but i would like to see that investigated because there have been so many moments where israel has used the unfortunate death of someone as a pretext for further siege. we talk to hamas they'll say the kidnapping happened before the cease-fire. i don't know if it's true or not but we need to investigate and find out. i think it's very dangerous to
frame hamas as a group of terrorists as opposed to people trying to negotiate as well. >> marc -- go ahead, alan. >> let me be clear. that's not a pro-hamas statement. i'm not defending hamas. i'm simply saying that it doesn't move the conversation forward to simply dismiss hamas and not talk about the other issues. let me be clear about that. >> that is a pro-hamas statement whether you intend it that way or not. the united states, canada, most of europe designated hamas to be a terrorist organization. terrorist organizations don't play by the rules, and where the u.n. goes wrong is it must place the blame for the attacks on the u.n. facilities on those who use the u.n. facilities from which to fire rockets. that's the double war crime. using human shields, hiding in schools, putting your rockets in schools. you know that the rules of engagement prevent -- >> alan in that school the united nations says it warned the israeli military 17 times that this was a shelter and there was nothing to fear, and
yet the school came under attack. >> but there was something to fear. israel has videotaped proof that the area around the shelter was being used by hamas to fire rockets at its soldiers. let me ask you this. >> why didn't they clear the school? >> are you justifying the bombing of a school? >> as an air commander would you tell your troops not to fire back if enemies were trying to kill your soldiers from behind u.n. facilities? would you like to be the one who calls the mother of the american soldier who has been killed and say, sorry, your son died because we told him not to fire back when he was being fired at because the enemy was using u.n. facilities as human shields? no country would do that. >> i'm baffled at your logic. al alan, you're constantly accusing hamas of using human shields and justifying the bombing of a u.n. shelter with children in it. you essentially are. you're saying what would you do in that circumstance as if that
makes the logic reasonable. at the end of the day here -- >> what would you do? what would you do, marc, being fired on from a u.n. shelter and the choice was being killed by enemy terrorists or firing back at them trying desperately to avoid civilians but knowing there is a possibility that civilians -- >> not a possibility. >> -- because your enemy -- yes it's only a possibility. israel goes to great efforts not to hit civilians but they know they may have to do that in an effort to get at the terrorists. you would -- >> 80% of the palestinians dead are civilians. it's san suabsurd to suggest th. >> alan, pause for a second and let marc get a word in. >> he's filibuster, that's all. 80% of the people in palestine who have died are civilians. if they're going to great care they're not doing a very good job. i also don't begin from the place of, alan always places israel in a defensive position and saying what would you do if
these people were firing upon you. the problem with that logic is that begins with palestinian resistance as opposed to israeli occupation. if you begin from the place of israeli occupation and you talk about palestinian resistance to that, then suddenly the question should be what would you do if you're israel and in an athat are pid state and occupying force. that is the more fundamental question. and hold on, alan. hold on alan, please. once again i am not defending the kill of innocent children. i'm not defending breaking of cease-fires. i'm not suggesting that hamas is above critique. i'm not pro-hamas. i'm anti-occupation and that's a very different occupation and what the united nations is attempting to do. >> we are engaging in bigotry. i fought against apartheid. i was part of the legal team for nelson mandela. i know what apartheid is. how dare you call israel an apartheid state? arabs and jews work together, live together, serve in the kndnesset together. >> i hope i get a chance to
respond to this. >> they left behind all of the greenhouses, hamas turned them into terrorist rockets. shame on you for calling israel an apartheid state. you have become part of the problem, not part of the solution, marc. >> your moral censure aside, i'd like to respond to that. looking now there's first, second and third class citizenship for israelis, arab-israelis and palestinian-israelis. >> please, alan, let marc respond. >> i'll just wait for him, are you done? thank you, sir. if you're talking about occupation moving, ending in 2005, right now gaza is still controlled by land, by air, by sea, israel still has a blockade, controls the population registry, still controls the electromagnetic sphere and controls movement and still controls the entering and leaving for palestinians and still controls the construction of supplies and controls the batter, the food that comes in, still controls the economy. palestinians have not had one day of self-terms. if y self-drmgs. if you don't call that an
apartheid state shame on you. >> you talked about israel being an apartheid state number one. >> address the points i made, alan. address the points i made. >> you're interrupting me. gaza has had self-determination. they voted and the foolish people of gaza voted for hamas and look what it . >> look what's it's gotten them. it's gotten them turning the possibility of having a wonderful area of gaza turned into a terrorist base and when you use your civilians -- by the way, another myth is that gaza is very densely populated. look at a map sometime and you'll see there's areas of open space that hamas could use to fire roks rockets. they choose to go to the dense area of the gaza strip rather than the empty areas precisely because they want to incur civilian casualties. i call this the dead baby strategy. they know when they put their rockets in front of civilian areas, israel will have to respond, children will die and
they are ready to show them on television. the media and you falls for it and it encourage them to go again and again and again. >> last word, marc. >> i would be curious if alan has any critique of israel. alan is tearing down the straw man that hamas has made mistakes and worthy of moral send sewer as well. alan seems to refuse to acknowledge that everything that hamas is doing, and palestinian people are fighting for is a posture phoresis tans to occupation. alan, they gave me last word. >> i'm going to -- sorry. i got to end this here. thanks to you both for being with here. we'll be right back. captain obvious: i probably wouldn't stay here tonight.
i have sad news on the ebola outbreak. it is actually moving faster than our efforts to control it, those are the words of the director general of the world health organization, margaret chan. she made those comments in guinea where she assessed the outbreak. efforts are under way to get two americans infected with the ebola virus back home. we're continuing to follow that story as well. we're also following breaking news out of the middle east, where a cease-fire is officially over and the israeli military says a soldier has been captured.
athena jones has reaction from the white house. good morning. >> reporter: good morning, carol, there's clearly anger and concern here at the white house, as well as big questions as to what happens next. i spoke with deputy national security adviser tony lincoln. apparently, hamas used this cease-fire to attack israeli soldiers in a tunnel. this apparently violation by hamas was bar bearic. he said this on new day this morning. let's play a little bit more of what he had to say. >> let me say, chris, in no uncertain terms that soldier who has been taken hostage should be returned immediately. secretary kerry has already been in touch with the israeli prime minister to talk about next steps in this process. we certainly will be working with our partners and u.n. and other interested parties who have been a part to try to broker this agreement about what the next steps are.
there should be no mistake that the israeli soldier who has reportedly been captive should be returned unharmed immediately. >> you heard that. and there is next steps the big question here. what will the next steps be. i asked josh earnest after that interview what's going to happen in that interview what's going to happen in cairo. given the current situation, it doesn't look like those talks would achieve very much. that's where we stand. we'll be following it closely all day. >> athena jones reporting live in the white house.